Why We All Need Spaces Like This
In this episode, Mitch Case shares his journey from a successful career in HVAC sales to taking a bold leap into entrepreneurship, only to face failure, rebuild, and discover a deeper definition of success.
He opens up about the role of relationships in shaping both business and life, the lessons learned from losing a business, and how those experiences led to the creation of The Pickup Project, a community built on trust, connection, and shared experiences through sport.
This conversation highlights the power of vulnerability, intentional relationships, and the idea that meaningful connections, not credentials are the true foundation of long-term success.
Transcript
Intro:
Welcome to another episode of Think Your Way to an Epic Life. Today’s guest proves that relationships, not résumés are what really matter when building a powerful career.
If you have a life you’re proud of, chances are you have strong relationships.
Mitch Case took a leap most people only dream about—and he failed hard. But he rebuilt from the ground up and now leads in commercial real estate investing. He’s also one of the most authentic community-builders I’ve ever seen.
If you haven’t heard of the Pickup Project, we’ll dive into it. If you’ve ever felt the pull to do something bigger—but fear held you back—or wondered how to build a business on trust and connection, you’ll love this conversation.
Why Mitch Took the Leap
Mitch shared that while working in commercial HVAC sales as a mechanical engineer, he was earning well—but lost sight of what truly brought him joy.
One night, while trying to close another sale, he realized:
His wife was home pregnant with their second child
His 3-year-old was waiting
And he was chasing money with a stranger
That moment hit him hard.
His wife asked him a powerful question:
“If we look back in 20 years and you didn’t make this decision, would you regret it?”
That question removed his fear.
That same night, he submitted his two-week notice.
When Everything Fell Apart
After running a business for about 4.5 years, things declined:
Finances worsened
Debt increased
His health suffered
His family life was strained
His wife stepped in again and said:
“This isn’t what we signed up for.”
What helped him through:
Support system – His wife never called it a failure
Perspective shift – The business taught him lessons he couldn’t have learned otherwise
Community response – When he shared publicly, people praised his courage
He realized:
Most people didn’t even know he “failed”
The fear was mostly internal (ego-driven)
The Power of Vulnerability
Mitch emphasized that vulnerability is essential:
It strengthens relationships
It allows people to support you
It prevents damaging trust
“If I hid it or lied, I’d damage the relationships that matter most.”
Failure’s Biggest Lesson
His wife believes failure taught him something success never could:
👉 Presence
He became:
A more present husband
A more present father
He stopped missing:
School drop-offs
Dance recitals
Everyday family moments
The “Quarters, Dimes, Nickels, Pennies” Concept
A therapist helped him understand relationships like money:
4 Quarters → closest inner circle
10 Dimes → strong connections
20 Nickels → acquaintances
100 Pennies → surface-level contacts
He realized:
He had almost no “quarters” besides his wife.
So he intentionally:
Reached out more
Scheduled time with friends
Built deeper relationships
The Pickup Project (Origin Story)
The Pickup Project started as a solution to:
Expensive networking events
Shallow conversations
Overcrowded business gatherings
Instead, he invited people to:
Play basketball
What happened:
2 people → 4 people → full courts
Real relationships formed
Business followed naturally
During COVID, a survey revealed:
Nearly $1M in business happened within the group
The biggest impact?
“Genuine friendships”
Why It Works
Basketball removes filters:
People act naturally
You see real character
Conversations go deeper
It also:
Breaks social barriers
Connects different backgrounds
Builds trust faster
Why Men Need Spaces Like This
Mitch shared that many men:
Bottle emotions
Avoid deep conversations
Carry pressure alone
Meanwhile, women:
Share openly
Process emotions together
The Pickup Project helps men:
Open up gradually
Build real friendships
Have emotional outlets
Mindset Shift (Survival → Growth)
A turning point came from a 66-day habit-building program focused on:
Health
Wealth
Love
Happiness
Key realizations:
He had more to offer
He needed to grow beyond a fixed path
He needed to align joy + strengths
His Definition of Generational Wealth
Not luxury or material things.
Instead:
Financial freedom to choose work
Assets that generate income
Ability to serve others
Passing opportunities to future generations
“It’s about freedom and impact—not just money.”
Biggest Advice
Mitch’s bold advice:
Know your value
Reach out anyway
Send the message
Make the call
Ask for mentorship
Offer value (even free work)
Also:
Don’t neglect close friendships
Final Reflection
Everything in his journey points to one truth:
You are one relationship away from a different life
Full Transcipt here:
Welcome to another episode of Think Your Way to an Epic Life. And today's guest is someone who proves that relationships, not résumés, are what really matters when building a powerful career. So, if you've got a life that you're proud of, you probably have some pretty powerful relationships. Mitch Case took a leap most people only dream about, and he failed hard, guys. But then he rebuilt from the ground up and now he leads in commercial real estate investing and is one of the most authentic communitybuilding people or movements I guess I should say that I've ever seen. If you haven't heard of the Pickup Project, we're going to dive into it a little bit. It's really fun. And if you've ever felt the pull to do something kind of bigger, um, but it was maybe fear that held you back, or if you've ever wondered like, how do I build a business purely on trust and connection? Or if you're craving a tribe of people who bring out your best, you're going to absolutely love this conversation. So hang in there with us. We're going to dive right in and we'll find out all about Mitch as we as we go through these questions. So Mitch, I'm going to start just right just bang right out of the gate. What made you take a leap from HVAC sales into becoming an entrepreneur? Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I thank you so much for having me on here. But um you know what ultimately got me to that position in my commercial HVAC sales, you know, as a mechanical engineer was was making very good money. But um I lost sight of the things that really were truly bringing me joy uh through that business. And I found myself with my wife pregnant with our second kiddo and a three-year-old at home. And I was out at a happy hour trying to make one more sale. um with a stranger that I honestly like in the moment my whole goal was how can I get them to buy one more thing because finances were a very um it was something of self-worth and value that I held. Um and when I had finally got to that point of realizing that my wife and child are at home and I am out here with a stranger, it just it just really hit me. And through that process, you know, talking with my wife, trying to understand like, you know, I I do want to be home more. I'm not being the dad that I want to be. I'm not being the husband that I say I want to be through my actions, just through my words. Um, and ultimately, we got to a point where I I told her like, if we make a a change, like this is what this looks like. And I will never forget the question that she asked me. And she basically looked at me and said, "Hey, if we look back in 20 years and you haven't made this decision, would you regret it?" Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it was right there in that moment of she took the fear that I was having from making that leap. She shouldered it for the time being to say, "I got your back." And you know, it was such a an easy question to answer with yes, I would absolutely regret it. And so, you know, literally that night put my twoe notice uh document together. Um we had been praying about this for probably the last 12 months. So, it wasn't like, all right, let's just do this and go. Um but ultimately, you know, I do blame my wife for a lot of this that has happened over the years, but in such a loving and supporting way that um she helped me get over that fear of what it might look like. And that question just really grounded me to say, "Yeah, yeah, I don't want to live a life with regrets." That is a she is a she's wow. She's brilliant. She's very wise. Very wise. Very wise. Because guys, I want you all thinking that and I want you asking yourself that question. If I whatever it is, if if I'm a smoker, if I don't quit smoking, what does my life look like in 20 years or or in some people's case maybe it's five years, whatever. But really, really ask yourself those those introspective questions that is superpowerful. The other thing I want to throw in here before I hit you with the next question is one of the best books I've ever read is called The Big Leap and it's from Jay Hendris. And guys, pick up that that book because it is it is so powerful. It really really ties exactly and it it would seem that you had memorized the book with what you done. I I have not read that one, so I will uh I'll go read my own story, I suppose. There you go. Read your story. There you go. But but so so you did it. You you you dove in. It was like your wife is like, "Yeah, babe. I got you. We've got this. You know, we're going to have to struggle. It's we're not going to have the money that we're used to." All that stuff. You decided it was all okay. And then everything fell apart. So, when it fell apart, what kept you going? Well, you know, we we built a a business that we had had going probably nine or 10 months prior to me leaving. Um, and we're able to run that for about four and a half years, but for the last 12 months of that, um, I kind of saw the writing on the wall. Our finances were awful. Um, we were putting ourselves in more debt. And as I I mentioned before, like a lot of my self-worth and value was was stuck on money, finances. I didn't feel like I was providing uh for my family and multiple different ways. And again, my wife coming to me and saying, "Hey, you're you're working more than you ever have before. You're not working out anymore. You're not eating well. You're killing yourself. Like, this is not what we signed up for." And she and she called me out on it and said, "Hey, I think it's time that we we make some changes here." What helped me get through the what I would call the the dark time was one having my support system for my wife. Uh I mean she did not look at this as a failure and she still will not call this a failure. She believes that our business more than a meal was intended to break me from this self-worth, self-v valueue of of finances to say hey if more than a meal had never fallen apart and wasn't successful like who would you have been outside of that? you would have just leaped in, everything would have worked and you would have been riding this high horse chasing more and more money and now having the introspective side of things or the new perspective of oh wow like we can survive off a lot less than we want or necessarily need but also in the same sense like we learned a lot of valuable lessons on the things that we will do and won't do. The thing that blew me away the most and I had the hardest time with was I was I was scared to tell people that it didn't work out. I was afraid. I'm very active on social media. Um, I'm busy in the business community in the Kansas City area and telling people that I failed. My ego was hurt. Everything was down. But when I when I made that public post, I had people calling me out of the woodwork just saying, "I am so impressed from what you have done and what you have built. You did something that most people wouldn't even dare doing and you did it for four and a half years. I'm so proud of you. I was I was blown away almost to tears with the number of calls and texts. I imagined it was just going to be people like, "Oh yeah, no, another one bites the dust. Another one fails." Not the supportive community. And the thing that really grounded me through all of that was I thought everybody in the world knew that I had failed. Half the people that I even bump into today, two years after we've shut this thing down, they're like, "Hey, how's more than a meal going?" I'm like, "Well, we shut it down." So, I recognized like there a lot of the the concern that I had was more just my my own personal ego or or um uh just my own self thinking that people were going to see me as a failure. And to be quite honest, very few from the number of people that are out there even knew what was going on or what actually happened. So, it just kind of removed that situation of like even if we try and even if we fail, the people that really care about you, they're going to be there supporting you, cheering you on, picking you back up. The people that don't really care about you don't even know or care. And so, that really helped remove me from this whole identity of failed business owner to let's go do it again. Let's see where else I can fail. Let's go see where else I could be successful and try it again and see where it takes us. And um those two things uh that support system from my my spouse and close friends and family that saw the effort saw the sacrifice that we made and lifted me up and said I am proud of you. And then the other side of just who I thought was going to be looking and paying attention to had absolutely they didn't even know or they didn't even care. So those are the things that kind of help me. Okay. So, so the biggest thing that I got from all of that, how important is vulnerability, Mitch? Uh, it it as you kind of said on the intro, like it's it's one of the things that um has grounded me to make sure that I can speak how I am feeling and so that people can know how they can best support you. Because if I were to just run through this and and I imagine if I were just running through this and denying the fact that this didn't work out or telling lies after lies after lies, like I'm just doing more damage to the relationships for the people that care about me than anything else. And um yeah, I it's it's imperative to my success um on and off the business field. So So what what is your wise wife's name? Emilyn. So, Emilyn, what would she say that failure taught you that success never could? I know that she would have better words than me for that scenario. Um, you know, when I kind of come back to the the ground of everything on why we're doing what we are doing, I think what she recognized or would recognize the most is how much more present I have been as a husband and father throughout this process. Um, so I kind of leaned back on that idea of where she was saying like maybe this business was never intended to be successful in the way that you thought it was going to be successful. But I will tell you it was very successful at you dropping the kids off at school. It was very successful at you being at um watch week at dance with our daughter. Like those types of things removed me from the desire to just skip those really precious moments that I'm only going to get 18 years out of with my children. Instead, um, you know, I would have been out at another happy hour, another lunch, skipping over those things. So, I I think what she would say on the, you know, what has failure taught me through this is figuring out how to be a more present husband and father throughout this journey. That's beautiful. That is so beautiful. And it is the most important thing. Darren Hardy talked about imagine being at your own funeral. Yeah. And did you see that? That was so that impacted me so much. I listen to his stuff. Is that the one where he talks about what's going to be on your tombstone? No, no, no. It's who's there? So So you're you're at the funeral and you get to see your own funeral and then your friends and family that are most important are on the front row and everyone else is at the back and who do you really spend the most of your time with? M it's almost always the people at the back. It's not the people at the front that and that's so messed up for entrepreneurs. It's just backwards. So speaking of all that stuff, I mean relationships in my opinion, in my opinion, like this is just an opinion. When you get to the end of your life, the measure of success, the true measure of success is how many deep real relationships did you experience in your lifetime? Deep real relationships. Yeah. How how important are relationships in rebuilding your life? So speaking of the challenges of entrepreneurship, you dedicate everything to that and a lot of other things suffer. And so being very vulnerable in this position, my wife and I decided to go to marriage counseling um throughout some of this process because we were being disconnected. And one thing that therapists talked about was the different relationships that we have in our lives and that they can somewhat change and come and go. And she related it to our mind really only has the capacity to have and everything's going to equal a dollar. So you have four quarters. Those four quarters are your inner circle, your do or die. They're the kind of person that you call, you say, "Hey, um, I got a body in the back." and they say, "Where are we burying this thing?" Those are your ride and die people. Then you've got 10 dimes to make a dollar. You've got 20 nickels to make a dollar. And you have 100 pennies. And the question that she asked me, and this was maybe three years ago, she goes, "Who are your quarters in your life?" And I was like, "Well, my wife." And I I I couldn't name any other people that I felt like I could call that could be there for me to talk about these scenarios like the the tough parts of my life. I had a lot of dimes, I had a lot of nickels, and I had a lot of pennies, but I did not have my quarters in place. And so that really just grounded me to say like I've been a really terrible friend to people that are are really good to me. And you know, I one of the things that I changed and that I really was intentional about was making sure that I I would in the morning I would write to myself on my daily journal of I am a good friend. I schedule things. And what that did was just really frame it in my own mind every single day that, you know, how am I going to be a good friend? And I just started reaching out to those people. um instead of texting them, calling them. Instead of talking about getting together, we would throw out dates and times to get together. And it really just transformed my own vision of these different relationships that can change. Sometimes, you know, what she was telling us was sometimes your dimes become quarters and a quarter needs to become a dime. Um and yeah. Yeah. It was really it was really grounding for us um to kind of go through this scenario and that has I've relayed that somewhat into business. Can somebody that I I work with on a daily basis or that I play basketball with, can they become a quarter? Absolutely. Absolutely they can. But I have to make the effort to be that person. And on the flip side, I have to make the effort to understand who they are, not just them understanding who I am. So yeah, I don't know if that really kind of answers your question, but it just really sticks out to me that identifying and realizing like, man, who are my quarters really changed my daily process on how am I going to be a good friend. It it is beautiful because guys, especially men, I hope you're hearing this. Um, the average adult male has less than one good male friend. That that is horrifying. You were one of them. You I was one of those. Yeah. And And now I've got my quarters. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Okay. It took some effort. It definitely took some effort. It does. It's work. I mean, guys, it is. There's no question about it. It's work. But that leads me perfectly into my next question. And what is the story behind the pickup project? Yeah, this was a a passion project that started while I was doing the commercial HVAC sales. Very quickly, I realized that there was a lot of other competitors that had that exact same widget that I sold. So, the only way to differentiate myself was to create a different experience with me versus our product or service. I wanted to get away from happy hours and lunches. They were expensive. Um, there's always a lot of people that would show up in a in a good way, but the more people, the less you get to have those one-on-one conversations. And so I just got frustrated and basically told people I I can't be doing this anymore. Um, one, I never knew if I was enabling somebody that maybe had some alcohol problems. Um, or it just it was taken out of my expenses. Like it was it had an impact on my uh income. And I was never a basketball player. I finally grew to over six foot tall my senior year when I was 5 foot tall my freshman year in high school. Um, but just enjoyed the game. I was never good at it, never made any teams or anything along those lines, but just enjoyed it. And we got together with three other people and played twoon two halfcourt basketball as a way to get out of the business environment and just be people competing on a court. And what happened from just those individuals grew to a full court of us running and playing basketball. That grew to then two courts running and playing basketball. And what I quickly recognized was the the relationships being built. We sure business was kind of talked about, but it was never the first thing that was talked about. There was always a relationship that had been established over time. There was some words being exchanged when one buddy hit a three-pointer in the other buddy's face and said, "I'm going to get you next time." like those types of bantering relationships where they had a lot of relationship equity um allowed for much clearer much less salesy type of business and my personal book of business grew from it. Now when I chose to leave that company that was one thing that I I had mentioned to them that you know this is something that I I created and I I really want to take this with me and we we parted ways and they uh okayed with me continuing on. Um, so it was originally called Friday Morning Hoops. When we had to pause because of COVID, we switched to a new location and we rebranded it Pickup KC. And for about 2 years, we ran that. And there were, I mean, 30, 40, even sometimes we had the highest we've ever had was 52 people on a Friday morning at 6:30 a.m. coming out and playing basketball with the purpose of getting to meet new people. First, we just happened to to play basketball. And so, this community had really really grown. And during COVID, I took a a survey and the two questions on there was, hey, if you've done business directly with somebody else in pickup project, give me a rough idea on how much revenue that was. And the other question was, what's the most unexpected thing that has come from the pickup project? And the numbers came back at just shy of a million dollars had been done directly within each other. Now, there was a lot of construction people in there, so I don't try to throw this off by any means, but you know, 50% of that could have been one or two projects that were done, but it still happened. The other one, which probably even put the bigger smile on my face, was genuine friendships. They didn't say genuine business relationships. They didn't say just relationships. They said genuine friendships. And I will never forget the picture that was sent to me. There's we're in Kansas City. We're bringing people together. There are three or four individuals that went to the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. They're big Huskers fans. They didn't know each other prior to basketball. And on a Saturday morning, I get a text from this group that are on their way up to Lincoln of all four of them. And they just shot me a text and said, "Hey man, really appreciate you putting basketball together. You put this together and we're going to go hang out." And I was a little bit jealous because I like I I love college football. And I didn't get the invite. Maybe there wasn't an extra seat. I don't know. But it really showed me that uh you know in any situation I think sports I think uh competitiveness just brings out a unique um portion of somebody that's just real and raw and you can get past the the surface level conversations and just get to know each other on a a deeper basis and become true genuine friends or or maybe dimes and quarters. Who knows? But um when I started shutting down more than a meal, it gave me a little bit more time um to think about what I wanted to do. Uh one of those things was moving into the commercial real estate side of things. The other one was, wow, we had a lot of people showing up for this pickup basketball thing. What if I grew this bigger and we make this community bigger and we make this even better for individuals that are coming out and put a quick business plan together um rebranded as the pickup project with you know the idea of come and meet new people that have a like-minded mindset and they are interested in meeting you. We're just going to play basketball instead of sit around a cup of coffee. Um, so you know, I'm proud to say we've grown to we're going to be launching our fifth location um at the beginning of the year and uh probably have two or three more coming shortly after that. So, it's been a lot of joy. Um, it's it's odd for me to go and play a game from a business perspective. Um, but it is absolutely amazing. every time I walk out of there, people pay to play and yet they still come up to me and just say, "Dude, thanks so much for like putting this together." Like that's when I was really really strong in the sense of like we're making an impact one way or another and that community continues to grow across the nation which is really really cool. That that is so incredibly cool. Are you familiar with BNI? I am. Yeah. Yeah. This I mean nothing against BNI. They were the They were the founder and it is wonderful and it works. And guys, if you're in a BNI, I have nothing but respect. This sounds like BNI on steroids with a lot more fun. Yeah. Unless you're having a bad day on the court, sometimes it could be a little rough, but um Yeah. Yeah. It's just really cool to watch the the friendships of individuals. The one thing I noticed, and I always tell people like, hey, if you're hiring somebody new, bring them out to basketball. you get in between the lines, you get their gut reaction. You don't get the interview reaction. Um, and there are some people that, you know, based on their the way that they treat people, um, you know, it's not that I won't let them come back and play, but I'm not going to make a recommendation to somebody when they ask, "Hey, do you know any job openings or anything along those lines?" So, um, yeah, it's it really levels the I guess like socioeconomical boundaries that sometimes society has on us. Um, these individuals walk in with different colored skin, different religions, different races, different beliefs, but when they step on the court, they have the same jersey on. They are working towards a common goal. And I will have a CEO that's going to put on a suit and tie afterwards and he or she is going to be sitting in a boardroom and makes a lot of money doing what they do. And then we also have individuals that are going to throw some bibs and overalls and going to go up on a roof and uh turn some wrenches, but when they are on that same team working towards the same goal, they build a relationship and come to find out that they've got more in common than they don't. And it's really really cool to watch that happen in real time. It is beautiful. and and and it is beyond brilliant. I don't know. I'm sure you've thought about this, but before you guys, my listeners, please hear me. Before you marry someone, before you get in business with someone, watch them play a game, any kind of a why why is it important to see people when they're playing a game? I It's It's very simple. They don't guard how they react. They react how they would naturally react. And sometimes it's really good and sometimes you're like whoa. Not today. Yeah. Yeah. It's really amazing. It's really amazing. It is so brilliant. I mean it what? Like literally this should blow up this and and and if you're not into basketball guys may maybe you would consult with them to franchise on on pickle ball or something that's less, you know, whatever. But Games is the real key because when someone's playing a game, they will show you their true colors. And if you can find that out before you have invested six months into training them and doing every, you know, wow and talk about this is great. I love this. So why do you think that men need spaces like that? I think and I'm speaking from my my own experience so I'm not going to generalize all men but I do believe that um for me it was always a scenario where I need to hold my things together. I can hold this family together. I can do this. Like, and that's kind of the I I mean, I I'll go out there and say that maybe some of some of that is the issue with society in the sense that we as men feel like we have to bear all of this this weight where it's, you know, in my relationship with my spouse, that's not necessarily the case. We we share it. We both give 100%. Um, but where I feel like I have have failed is I don't tend to want to get into deep conversations with other individuals to know what's going on out in their their lives. How are you actually feeling? Like how does that make you feel? The questions that can really get into like the emotional side of things. And we just feel like we have to bottle all of this up. And eventually that can lead to um different diseases um different issues from a bodily side, mental health, like all of those things we we fill and don't have any sort of release for it. And I'm always inspired and somewhat jealous of my wife and the conversations that she has with her girlfriends because they will air out everything. There is no secret. And I'm like, "What do you mean you told him that?" Like it's And then she'll come back, hey, how how is it hanging out with the guys? I'm like, "Good." And she's like, "What did you guys talk about?" Uh, nothing. Like, we just hung out. And so, that has given me some different perspective on, hey, how can I actually be a better friend? How can I dig deeper with that? And having those relationships, being able to step into a basketball court and get rid of the surface level, how was the game type of thing? And now getting to know like, hey, this person's showing up. And I always like to ask the question of like, hey, how'd you sleep? Because sometimes they can be like, it was a bad night. my kids did this or I was up all night doing this or I was out partying doing this and like it just gives you a different perspective of, you know, what's going on in this person's life versus, hey, how are you doing? Oh, I'm fine. I'm good. No, how did you sleep? Ah, man. Yeah, I was up all night. Why? Uh, so anyway, I think that's one of the things that just really helps me break down some of these barriers with these individuals that it's not I don't hit them with those questions on game one. It's when I've seen them come out month after month and I know who that I can start to see body language and tell when they walk in a little bit higher or a little bit lower. Um, we have a lot of men that are and and women that come out and play that have gone from a single individual to married to now having kids and watching them through that journey. And me having been through that journey already, I can be a a sounding board for them and open up and just validate some of the things of like, hey, it is hard. Like parenting is hard. And sometimes as men, you know, when there's a newborn, we we care about baby. we care about mother, but oftentimes it's not necessarily asked like, "Hey, how are you doing as the dad?" And I like to be that individual that can ask that question knowing that, hey, baby and mama, they went through a lot and you're the support system, but also you're you're not getting your needs taken care of right now either. So, how can I be that for those individuals? Gosh, this is brilliant. So, just curiosity here. What what makes the connection on a basketball court turn into real friendships? I think a lot of it for me, I've just always connected with individuals through competition. Um, you know, when we're getting together for the family dinner, like we want to play games, like we're looking through all these different reels on like Christmas games that we can play coming up and all this stuff. Like that's such a way to just have experiences together can create a bond that you can always recall on. We, you know, when you travel with somebody, you now have that thing that you can call on. When you play basketball together, you experience that together. Maybe they had a good game, maybe they had a bad game, like you now have that experience with them. So I I do believe that you know basketball or any sort of competition is just whatever that experience is that you can now have in common with that individual can allow you to move past the how's the weather? How's your day? How's the general question that everybody just says it's good. I'm good. And they don't even think about that question. But when you get out there and you're able to um you know know the individual because you've experienced something with them already, it just opens the door a little bit more. Yeah. You get into a little bit more inner circle. So, totally changing gears, getting into commercial real estate. Um I've in residential real estate most of my adult life. Uh what is one thing that people misunderstand about commercial real estate? I think the biggest thing is how um you know commercial real estate is a it's a business. Um you know when we sit there and think about real estate, we think about our own individual home and you know that is something of value to a lot of people. when you kind of jump into the commercial real estate side of things, um you're you're running a business and I that's where I have kind of flipped the most from my side and and that could also be related to single family home rentals as well, but um an investment in the stock market is you're investing here and you kind of let it ride and die. when you're investing in real estate or commercial real estate, you are operating a business and it needs to be treated as such or things can go the wrong direction. And so I think that's one of the things that I like to talk with individuals that are thinking about jumping into real estate is understand that you're running a business. There is a profit and loss sheet. There is a balance statement. This is not just put your money with this Apple stock and let it ride. So, no, there's always the u the elusive passive income or the mailbox money that people want out of it. And eventually, I believe that you can get to that point with a little bit of less hands-on. But initially, depending on what your goals are, it's going to take running a business and understanding what levers you're able to pull to make sure that you're increasing the value or that investment and not letting it founder. So, that's probably the one thing. How much emphasis or how how much importance is there on choosing a commercial realtor who also gets that and conveys that to the to the potential buyer? Yeah. You know, I'm you know, I've been investing in real estate for close to nine years now. I've had my license for maybe three months right now. So, I've just kind of joined in on this brokerage side of things. Yeah. Did a little bit backwards. I had to go through all the steps and the failed businesses to understand what my end goal is. So, um I do now have that and you know one of the things that I think is is extremely important or something that I have um experience with is understanding the business side of it. Um there might be other brokers out there and there are some really good ones. They just never invest on the other side. Um, so they lose a little bit of opportunity to truly understand what a investor is looking for or if it's a new person to help them through that process because at the bottom line with commercial real estate, everybody wants to know what's the net operating income. What is the revenue minus my operational expenses and depending on what that is is determining the value of your property. That NOI can change due to market conditions you can't control. It can be lack of operations being effective or efficient. It can be a myriad of things. And if you're not paying close attention to that or you're not working with that investor or that property manager to understand what your goals are, you can unfortunately make some bad decisions. And I just think that it's incredibly important if somebody is going to be advising somebody on a commercial real estate purchase or um acquisition, it might not hurt to know that the person that is helping you has been through that process as well. And guys, I can't I this is literally the first time that I've ever met Mitch. He's not paying me, but I cannot agree with him more. it. Like if you're investing in real estate and your realtor is still living in an apartment, they don't truly get it. If you're investing in in single family homes and your realtor doesn't own anything except for their own home, they don't quite really get it. And so it's it's very important who you choose to do business with. The value of your realtor is so much more than whatever they're charging you for if they're valuable. So, so what does generational wealth mean to you personally? I've never been asked that question before. You know, where where I always tend to go is, you know, generational wealth for me is the ability to choose whether my wife work for pay or not pay. And to be able to go and do that is more of a let's generate enough cash flow. I guess I'm going to get into the idea that I am not a huge believer of the let's build a nest egg and then at the end of the time where we can retire, we'll just spend all of that money and hope we die before we run out. I like the idea of being able to put assets in place to be able to generate the amount of money that we know we need to survive off month after month after month. And there is no depletion of this, you know, nest egg retirement that we try to get to. The idea of generational wealth for me is to allow my children, teach them that mommy and daddy made some sacrifices, but this is yours when we move on from this world. And the idea that you can go and do the things that you want to do, whether paid or unpaid, is where you can go out and create value in this world. whether that is taking care of individuals that need help um with your time, treasures or talent. Um or you can go and continue to build this thing for additional generations of our family down the road. So when I think of generational wealth, it's not, you know, maybe what some people would think of is, hey, I can go do the all the things I want to buy or the the the tangible things that maybe that can bring. It's more so I have gone through the journey of having money and it led to dead ends. It led to it led to um therapy with my wife in our relationship. But when I kind of remove those things, when we get certain things set in place and we can make those decisions to go and support the nonprofits that we love uh really close and know that financially we're going to be taken care of. Um, that's generational wealth for me is just making sure that we have those things in place that we can hand down to that next um, set of children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. But I always want to make sure that they recognize the sacrifices that my grandparents made, my parents made, that my wife and I made so that they could live this way. And if that's the hardest part of what I have to do is make sure that they know that they have um received a lot from a bunch of sacrifices ahead of them, then I I think we've done a good job. Right on. Right on. I mean, all of us, if every single one of us, if we're to look back at our history and and just go, "Oh my gosh, there's no way I could be where I am if those people hadn't done what they did long before I was even, you know, a thought." So yeah. Yeah. For somebody who's listening and and they're in survival mode and they want to be an investor and they want to really have that nest egg that is producing what they need and they and they want all this and they've tried and they just can't. What was the mind shift the the the mindset shift that happened in you that helped you go from survival to growth? Yeah. Um I I forget the gentleman's name, but this is where I really kind of came into this idea of like I have so much more to give and I don't know where to put it. And there was this um I I paid for the course and it was like 67 days of health, wealth, love, and happiness. And the idea behind it was 66 days. And I I think the studies change often on how many days it takes to really truly establish a a new habit. But this idea was 66 days you establish that habit. On the 67th day, it's your new you. And that really broke me into this world of reading a lot more and educating myself in other ways that I didn't really even think were available to me. So, it opens up your mind to become more creative in the different ways that you can go out and and produce. And whether that is through a job, through uh nonprofit support, like whatever that may be, it just opens your mind to a lot more uh scenarios. It also opened me up, and this is my own personal opinion of the limitations that maybe just a W2 um a daytime job can limit your potential growth or speed of your growth and what you want to do. Now, I am not saying I I am an advocate for a W2. Some people just rock at those. And if that job allows you to go and do things that bring you joy and happiness, then that is an amazing amazing opportunity that you have. But for me, I knew I had more to give. And for me, that looked like getting more into entrepreneurship and growing in that way. The idea that it just opened up my eyes to different ways and capacities set me on fire to the point where I just knew I had to go put myself in front of other people that were doing what I wanted to accomplish. Um, it opened up a burning fire to where all of a sudden I was waking up at 5:00 a.m. with an actual plan to go and at the end of the day thinking I didn't get enough done. Now, there's a there can be an issue with that as well. What I've learned is like sometimes you do need to slow yourself down uh to be able to do that. But I think the opportunity to recognize and educate myself that the health, wealth, love, and happiness includes working out, being in relationship, whether that's a a spouse, a friend, a girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever that may be, being in relationship. Um happiness. There was a mentor of mine that had me write down all the things that I was really good at and all the things that brought me joy. I filled out that joy list in a heartbeat. And then you went to the other side and it was like, what am I actually good at? It was a really good exercise for me and him pouring into me so showing me some of the things that I was good at. And his whole idea was if you can find a way for these to merge this joy that you have and you're really good at it and they can intersect with each other, which basketball enjoy that a lot. Operations, how can I build something from this? I'm really good at that with my engineering mind. I can marriage those two. And he says it's not going to make every day, you know, what's the the saying of like, you know, you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. He's like, that's a bunch of BFS. There are bad days. But he said, if you do what you enjoy and you're good at it, you're going to be able to enjoy or endure those bad days a lot better. And so that really just kind of helped me figure out what what brings me joy, what kind of work am I doing that fires me up, that makes me want to go and just run at 1,000 miles a minute. Um, and health, wealth, well, the wealth comes from just, um, repeated business access, um, putting yourself around individuals. And, you know, I really want to hit on, you know, the the other saying of, you know, you surround yourself with the five people and you'll you'll become them. I had a moment uh a couple years ago where I just had like an introspective side of things. It's like why do those people want to be around me? So I really wanted to encourage individuals to say what are you bringing to the table? Because we all have some sort of value to bring to the table to anybody that we are around. And so I really try to figure out, okay, if I want to be around these individuals, what am I really good at that they would want to be around me? And that just makes that relationship for from my perspective that relationship just goes a lot more deep because now they want to be around you and you want to be around them. So yeah, I don't know that was a long-winded way of saying um what I wanted to say, but I don't know if that answered your question or not. No, you did. You're doing great. You're being so incredibly real and so vulnerable and anyone who is still listening is definitely gleaning a ton. So, what is one bold risk that you hope someone listening today actually would take? A bold risk that I really do believe that anybody should go and and take is knowing that you have value, whether you feel like you are the lowest of low. Um, you know, and and I I say that from the sense of I put my family in a position where we had to only fill up the gas tank with so much money so that we could go get groceries. Like I put us in a bad bad spot and I felt pretty pretty low in that moment. But I was encouraged from the people around me of how much value I do have to give to individuals. Maybe not financially, uh maybe not any other scenario for yourself, but just truly understand that you have value in what you do or what you believe in or your skill sets, whatever that is. So sit and think hard of that, what that value is, and then go and surround yourself with people that you know you want to be like. And I think the boldest thing that I can say is just like send that email or send that text message or make that phone call to the individual to say I see what you are doing. I think this is something that I want to do but I need to be around people that are walking the walk and not just talking it. So could I get a cup of coffee with you? Could I, you know, I seen a lot of investors start their journey with, can I go and do something for you so that I can just be around you and teach me? I'm free labor. Like, I'm here to sweep floors. Just let me be around you. And so, the bold thing that I would tell people is understand that you have value one way or another, whether it's time, treasures, or talent. And the other side is make the phone call, make the text message, make the email, whatever that may be. And I'm going to add a little caveat to that too is do that for a good friend as well. Like go out and make that text message to make sure that you schedule that time because even though you've got your support system from a business perspective and what you want out of your life, you got to have those close ones because it's easy to just let those slip away when you get maybe blindsided sometimes by just the the pursuit of entrepreneurship or business. So basically, I hear you saying you're one or two relationships away from the life that you truly deserve and want. I I'd like to believe that. Um, you know, and I'm not at a point where I'm satisfied with with where I'm at either. So yeah, I mean, I'm going to listen to your advice, too, and say maybe I am just one relationship or two relationships away from getting what I want. So, so I just I'm going to ask you to dig, man, and just take a deep breath in here and take just really really dig all the successes you've had. Can you maybe not all of them, but can you go back and and remember it was a person that gave you a hand up that made the introduction for you that somehow it was a relationship that helped you get to the next step? Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are several individuals that I sit and and think of. Um, one individual, her name is Robin Brutin. She's been with me through thick and thin. She was my mentor as we were building more than a meal. There were moments where I was ready to hang this thing up um years ago and she just reminded me of the good work that we were doing. And um she was at shoulder. I mean, even to the point where she's like, "I'll cover them. I'll cover your bills this week." And I never asked for it. She never asked for anything in return. um she just knew that we were doing good stuff and and did that and it helped me understand like we're doing really good work right now and there's somebody that believes in me. Um my first boss in the the real world, Troy Gladstone, he helped me understand um truly creating a unique self to go out and differentiate yourself um and and push yourself from that personal development side of things. had he not encouraged me to get into some of those different books and going through that course, um I don't know where I would be today. Um there are are several individuals. One I'm just going to shout out right now is is Logan Freeman, who is now my managing broker. He's two years younger than me, but we met eight, nine years ago, and we just had a burning desire to be better uh men, better fathers, better husbands, um better in business, and we just kind of hustled and grind together. And the moment where I knew I was getting ready to go into real estate full-time, specifically on the commercial side, I didn't look for anybody else other than Logan, knowing that he's got the same mentality. He's got the same morals and values that I have. And we want to build something that is going to be really, really awesome, not just for ourselves, but for the people we get to help and serve, as well as for our families. And so I could the list could go on and on um of just those one things where it just picked you up or oh man I didn't even think about that. Um yeah I I could write a a fairly long list of individuals that popped in at the right time. They each served their moment in the time and place that I was at that moment and they will always be a lasting impact. Um, I actually was a part of a a group and I'm really forgetting the name right now, but there they encouraged us saying, "Hey, think of three people that just made a really big positive impact on you because I bet they don't know." And so we thought about it and they said, "All right, now go send a text message uh or shoot them an email just to say thank you." And uh we did that and it it even mended some relationships uh from some individuals and it also um you know hopefully it put a smile on somebody else's face knowing that you know this little blip in time where they probably don't even remember had a lasting impact. Gosh, it is so powerful. I Mitch, this is breaking my heart because we're we've already way over a normal podcast. I could talk to you honest to God for hours non-stop. Let's do it. Let's do it again. Right. Let's do it. We'll do it again. So, so what's one thing I should have asked you that I didn't? You didn't ask me about my kids. I'm so sorry. I mean, tell me. Uh, no. I, you know, when I had made that transition into full-time entrepreneurship, you know, that was one of the things that I I knew I just wanted to be really really involved. And I I write it down on a daily basis. I'm going to play even when it hurts, even when it doesn't feel right. Um, my oldest son Dean, he is eight and a half going on nine. Somebody just told me the other day, they're like, "Oh man, you only got 10 more years left with him before he leaves the house." And it just And more Christmases. It It hurts. And I know every parent out there understands that. And um it hurts. And And that's if I'm I'm blessed to have that many Christmases with him. U it is it is shocking at how fast that time goes. And so I've got a middle guy that's five and my youngest just turned four a few days ago. Um they truly um as frustrating as they can be at times the moment uh you know we we want to be there for for them and their their wins and their successes, but um being there to be able to show them what it's like to fail. Um because mommy and daddy have done this already. um understanding what hard work is like instilling like these lessons that I've been learning through my life and my journey and my parents and her parents into our children and the ability to tell them like I'm sorry I messed up like I my temper blew and I don't know where that came from but that wasn't directed towards you that was directed towards a lot of outside things and that wasn't fair I am sorry um those little things I I just really enjoy um being a father that can play, uh, be serious, have fun, but also just like, hey, we're going to be good humans. Like, let's This sucks right now. We're going to get through it. So, yeah, that's the question you didn't ask me is how much do I love my children? I wouldn't be here without them. Um, we're getting ready to go meet up with a few of them here in a little bit to to do stuff, but it just it truly does on that joy list. They are at the top. No, no question. It it radiates out of you, man. I mean, it literally is is I appreciate it. Oh, it's beautiful, Mitch. Thank you so much for reminding us, you know, that that real game changers in this life, they're not titles or achievements. They're relationships that we build, you know, they're the community that we create. And and they give us the courage to leap over like tall buildings in a single bound. And and and so guys, just remember all of you listening that you are just one brave decision, one relationship away from a completely different life. If Mitch's story resonated with you, go connect with him. He's exactly the kind of person who'll cheer you on. He'll help you build something meaningful. He'll even help you invest if you so choose and and help you with your financial world because guys, it's not all about money. I can assure you. I have been incredibly incredibly poor and I have not. And being not is way, way better. It's just way better. One of the best ways to help poor people is to not be one of them. So, hook up with Mitch and he'll help you get on the road. Mitch, thank you again so much for sharing your wisdom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you letting me come in here and talk to your audience. It's been it's I'm so grateful you did, man.